Palagpat Coding

Fun with JavaScript, HTML5 game design, and the occasional outbreak of seriousness

Queer New World: Interviewing While Trans

Wednesday, June 21, 2017

Business woman handshake

It's been a while since I've posted something here. I thought coming out would somehow make me less prone to procrastination or somehow magically give me more time to blog, and that certainly hasn't happened, but there are things that are worth doing, and you make time for what you value. So. I'm going to try to write more and maybe spend a little less time on social media.

We'll see if that actually happens or not. 😆

Late last July, shortly after I wrote my previous post about coming out at work and how positive and affirming that experience was for me, I was laid off. The company was facing a difficult pivot, and as a result had to let me and a handful of other very talented people go. I don't begrudge them doing so; they were attempting to tackle some really difficult problems and needed all the focus and runway they could get in order to succeed, and I wished them well (they've since been acquired by LinkedIn, but that's another story). They gave me a generous severance package that enabled me to focus on quickly finding another job, and I did, joining the UI Engineering team at Zenefits (a company that has, sadly, been in the news a bit too often for unfortunate reasons in the past year, but which seemed to me to have moved past their troubles and was on a good path*). I had a lot of respect for my boss, Matthew Eernisse, who I'd been following on Twitter for years before ever meeting in person (I didn't even realize he was the same MDE I followed until he gave me his Twitter at the end of the interview), and that ultimately helped me make the decision.

* (It wasn't, in fact, on a good path, but there was really no way for me to know this.)

My boss worked to foster a culture of fun, respect, hard work, and constant self-improvement, and there's definitely a blog post I need to write about what it was like for the first time working on a team of people that never knew me as anyone other than Rylee, female engineer. I had a lot of great experiences there, both personally and professionally, and I'm glad for it. But last February, they laid me off, along with nearly 50% of their workforce, so this is not that post.

Instead, what I want to write about today is my experiences, both last summer and this past spring, interviewing for a senior engineering role as a woman of transgender experience.

Last summer, I commented on my Tumblr about how the whole job-hunting process felt, and it still held true in this most recent round:

I hear all these horror stories about interviewing while trans, and I’m sure there’s plenty of truth to them… in fact, I’m pretty sure that a couple of the rejections I’ve received this week were at least in part because I’m not a "good cultural fit" for the team. [editor's note: this phrase is often code for "not like the rest of us"]

But, by and large, the people I’ve talked with have been amazing. My gender just isn’t even relevant to a lot of these conversations, especially with companies that have diversity efforts.

Then there was the follow-up email I just got from Coursera this afternoon after a very promising preliminary lunch interview:

Interview coordinator asking for my preferred pronouns

As a close friend said when I showed her: "God bless Northern California!"

The thing is, I live in the San Francisco Bay area, and have a skill set and body of experience that mean I get a LOT of inquiries from recruiters, even when my profile states very clearly that I'm not looking for a new job. In fact, between those inquiries and the personal introductions MDE made for each of us that were leaving his team, I'm pretty sure this last round of interviews was busier than my calendar when I'm actually employed.

A Google calendar view of my interview schedule
My calendar for February. Note that I was laid off on the 9th.

So the upshot was that I had no shortage of interest, and was in the enviable position of being able to be very selective about the companies and roles I chose to pursue. So I eventually narrowed my focus to companies in the peninsula area (around Palo Alto) and not in San Francisco proper, where it's difficult and expensive to park and where traffic is often infuriating. Twice bitten in the span of a year, I further narrowed it to companies that hadn't had any layoffs or bad press in the recent past (bye, Uber). I was particularly interested in those companies that saw my gender (and, more broadly, my trans status) as an asset and not a liability. But even so, there were times that I feel like I may have been evaluated differently than if I were a cisgender male applicant.

Sometimes an email exchange would be positive, then a phone call would go badly. Sometimes that initial phone screening would go well, but an in-person interview would go sideways the minute my interviewer laid eyes on me. I have one very specific experience that I'm not going to share in great detail, but the change was very evident to me. I'd had a few phone calls with a certain company's founder, all very enthusiastic to meet me, but when I stepped into the office for the on-site interview, I could tell right away that things weren't going to go well... of the 20 or so people in the office, I was the only woman. My interviewers were respectful enough, but I definitely got a vibe from a few of them that suggested they weren't sure how to interact with me, perhaps for fear of offending or perhaps due to their discomfort with me personally. Or maybe not, and it was all in my head. Certainly, the feedback I got a few days later indicated that I "didn't have enough technical depth," despite my feeling that everything I'd said was extremely on point and relevant to the job posting (aside from one question that I flubbed in my nervousness by confusing Backbone with Bootstrap). But I didn't know, not really. I couldn't know for sure; that's sort of the problem, and the point.

Institutional bias is one of those things that's extremely subjective, often contentious, and hard to prove definitively. Multiply it by having more than one minority attribute, and it gets even harder. Am I perceived the way I am because I'm a woman? Because I'm trans? Because I've got a few more years under my belt than some other applicants? Because I don't have a CS degree? Who can say for sure?

There are of course other minority attributes that multiply these things still further, those of skin color, native language, nationality, religious upbringing, and mental/physical handicaps, but as those aren't my lived experiences, I can't comment on them, only point out that I still operate in a world of relative privilege. Intersectionality is a topic in and of itself that bears more discussion than it gets (and more, sadly, than I'm going to give it in this post).

Look back at that calendar I shared earlier. See that appointment on March 3rd?

A zoomed-in image of my Google calendar for March 3, 2017
Addepar was frendly, but they're not who I'm talking about.

Yeah. Quora. Crowdsourced Q&A. A social network for people who like to read, like to write, and like to think deeply about the world. (and yes, also a place where people ask questions like "Is Tom Selleck gay?" — apparently inquiring minds want to know :eyeroll:)

A blurry photo of my Quora on-site interview schedule
It's blurry, but then I snapped this picture in a hurry.

My experiences that day surprised me, in a good way. I really hadn't given them a ton of consideration, they really weren't on my radar at all in fact, but I'd enjoyed my initial internet and phone interactions with their team, they were in my target location, and the company was poised for growth in a really compelling way. I've worked for very small startups and for midsized, well-established companies; until that point I'd never worked for a company on the cusp of moving from the former to the latter.

More to the point, when I walked through the office, you know what I saw?

A really appealing cross-section of humanity.

Men. Women. Older folks. Younger folks. People from here. People from elsewhere. A literal wall-sized world map with the hometowns of every employee virtually covering the globe.

A photo of Quora's employee hometown map
Okay, we're under-representing the southern hemisphere, but still.

My interviews were all very positive and encouraging as well. Challenging, certainly, but in a very good way that made me feel like I'd shown them my best.

Apparently they felt the same way. I've been here for nearly 3 months, and couldn't be happier with my choice.

More on that soon.

You have been reading Queer New World: Interviewing While Trans, part of the random geekery that is Palagpat Coding: the personal blog of Rylee Corradini. If you'd like to leave me feedback, you can usually find me lurking on Twitter, where I intermittently share and comment on similar topics.